Welcome to Book Talk! Students in Mrs. Kuhn's 7th and 8th Grade Core class are invited (and required) to participate in this online book club.
We will use this page to post our thoughts and reflections about novels that we are studying together and independently. Let's talk!
As soon as I began reading Tiger Tiger, at the prologe,i was already liking the book. It is so descriptive and makes you want to know where the two cubs are going. One part that i liked, in the wasy described, but no the event,was: "As the cubs are carried down to where cages wait in the grim bowels of the ship, they cannot know that their last chance of rescue lies at the foot of the gangway with a spear through her heart." That is extremely sad, they have so many bad things happening to them: 1.They are being captured, 2. Their mother has died, now they have nobody to rescue them!
Since the begining of the book, you can see it's going to be a good book. Right at the prologe, the author already starts being so descriptive it seems that you are actually in the middle of the jungle and hunters are coming after you. You actually can feal the same the two little cubs are fealing while they battle to know if they should run like all the other animals or do whta their mother told them and stay where they because she must come back. I think that what is going to happen next, by reading the back of the book, comparing it to descriptions and infering, the largest cub is going to become one of the animals who fight whith the gladiators while the smallest cub is going to become a pet for the princess Aurelia. That is what I think will happen next, so lets wait and read more to see...
Responding to Javiera: Yes, I also agree that its a very sad situatiuon the cubs are confronting. First, they are all alone and going to and unkown place. Second, their mother is dead and there is no possible way for them to get her back; their family was devided. Third, from infering, I can say that probably both cubs are going to be seperates as well. What will happen when they don't have each other anymore and they are all left over? They could possibly forget about each other, but wouldn't there be a "hollow spot"of loneliness inside them?
Responding to Javiera and Isabela: The author seems to be trying to make the reader imagine what it would be like to be an animal. Do you think animals really "feel" like humans? Do they feel emotions like sadness and loneliness too?
I think that the objective of this book is to show how different lives lead to different forms of character. One reason I believe this is true is because he gets two brother tigers, that lived exactly the same, and not two random tigers. Also, the treatments they receive are at both extremes: Boots has the best life possible, living with the princess, and Brute has the worst life possible, being trained to kill. Finally, both tigers have similar personalities at the beginning, when they were free, and at the end Brute is a sanguinary beast and Boots acts like a big cat. This is why I think that the main theme in the book is how harsh treatment can affect the way a living thing feels and acts.
Responding to Mrs.Kuhn: I believe that yes, animals do have feelings, but not like humans. They might have some similar type of emotions, but they won't love like we do, feal pain like we do, feel lonely... They can have some tyope of fealing, but the impact of pain on us could have a different impact on them. The can feal lonely, but there are propably other things they cen worry about. They have different worries then we do, which means they actually have a different way of thinking that we humans do. I think they can actually feal sadness, but the impession we get is that they "forget"for some periods of time. They have a much healthier action then humans for sadness; many humans would get depressed while tigers wouldn't let it interfer in their lifes. I believe that yes, animals do have emotions, but not like humans.
i really like the begining of the book. It is really descriptive. when I read it I can picture the scene of the book. I like the way it describes the jungle turning alive when the hunters come. The author really does a good job on describing the tigers emotoins. I really wonder where ther tigers came from though?
I have mixed feelings about Aurelia's character. In first place, I think that she is a little spoiled. For example, she decides to ignore what Julius says and orders him not to pull Boots' claws out, even if Julius knew more than her on how to keep her safe. Also, on page 18, it says that Aurelia killed a fish just because she had the power to. This is not a good action. I also think she is a bit childish, playing such a mean prank on Julius just because he fell asleep, and simply desperating when her father decided how to punish him. She could have rebelled in a more effective way than how she did. For example, she could have helped Julius escape herself, and then run away from Rome. That is what I think I would have done if I were in her place. Finally, I think that she is too arrogant, even for a princess. She gives absolute orders to Marcus, Julius and everyone around her, even though she sometimes is way younger and knows way less than the people she forces to do her will, like her nurse. On the other hand, she did want to confess to her father that she was to blame and not Julius, and she did face the emperor of Rome in her own manner. She was also really brave going to the Circus, something that I would have not been able to do. You can see that I really don't know if I should admire or dislike Aurelia.
Isabela Karam says that animals feel in a different way than humans. I disagree with her because you only need to live with one animal, any animal, to realize that they actually do feel emotions like us. For example, once I put on a black wig and black makeup on for Halloween, and my cat looked at me really strangely. It was very easy to see, even more after living with her for eight years, that she was confused and scared. When I tried to pet her, she ran away as if I was shooting her. I cornered her and took my wig off. As soon as she saw that, a look of annoyance crossed her face and she meowed really loudly and angrily because I had scared her. Also, I know that she missed me when we went to Guartelá for four days, because as soon as I came back she was much less a rebel than she normally is, and let me handle her so much that normally she would have bit me. A third example is: when my Myth Project group came to my house to film, we cornered her and i grabbed her because they wanted to pet her. She tried to escape, and started meowing sadly, and it was obvious that she was begging me to let her get away from those strangers. We locked her in my room, and John and Lennart started petting her. She didn't bite them, but her ears were twisted backwards and her eyes were opened wide, in annoyance and fear. As soon as we let her go, she ran away, frightened, and she evited me for the rest of the day, as if angry at me for making her go through all of that. These are very few of the many examples that animals give of their feelings to anyone who wants to interpret them, and normally their emotions are so clear and simple that we disconsider them. When cats half-close their eyes slowly they are saying something very close to "I love you", and my cat does that to me daily. Once I did it to her, and she did it back again. I wanted to see her reaction, so I did it again, and she completely closed her eyes and started purring very loud, and I wasn't even touching her. You can see that animals give many hints of their feelings, and you only need to know what to look for or follow your own emotions.
Isabela Karam says that she thinks that the situation the cubs are facing is very sad. I agree with her to a certain extent. I agree with her because they did feel something missing when they were separated, like it says on page 33: "He hadn't forgotten his brother, either. And his brother hadn't forgotten him." They probably missed each other and felt lonely and confused, and that is why I feel sad for them. On the other hand, I disagree with Isabela because they would end forgetting one another, since they were really young when they were separated, and to a certain point of view they were safer in their new destiny than in the jungle. For example, Boots lived with all his need taken care of, in a safe place. Brute, however, lived a more difficult life. He was trained to kill and to fight, and the food was scarce. Even though his life was hard, he did have food, and he was reasonably safe as long as he was not in the arena. Being a tiger, for instance, helped him survive when he was in the arena, so he was never in too much danger. In the forest, both tigers would be in danger daily, threatened by nature or by skin hunters. It would be hard to find food, too. As you can see, I both agree and disagree with Isabela.
Responding to Mrs. Kuhn: No I do not think that they feel the same as humans, but they must have some feelings, not emotions. When they cry its a way of telling somebody they are hungry and sad, when they growl they are angry.. So, they adapt to the environment by actions. Although later in the book, Boots misses his brother at night and thinks: "Where was his brother? That was the most important thing. They had been a pair, and now that had ended and he was alone. In the darkness there was no warm, friendly other to curl up against. No familiar smell and no one to communicate with. He slept at last, miserable, aching and lonely (pg.30)." This expains many things: 1. He does remember his brother and all the good things about being with him. So, they have a good memory. 2. He does have some feelings, he was miserable, lonely and aching. Poor tiger!!
So, they do have some feelings, but not as many as humans.
Like said before: The author wants to make us think about how animals are treated and the life that they live in. Many animals are captured by hunters and taken to other places, where they are sold, killed or trained. They have to adapt to complete different places. As a twin, I have spent all of my life with somebody in the same place, grade,house, bedroom.. ever since I was born. We have always been there for each other, and it would be extremely sad to be separated. Now the two cubs are separated and they may never see each other again. By reading the opening of the book, you can know that Marcus is going to get the cub and hide it. Then they, Marcus and Boots, will be sent to the arena to be killed. Then Boots and Brute will find each other. But what will they do?? Let continue reading....
Responding to Francesca's Post: I do agree with you and Isabela K. that it is very sad to be separated and away from your brother and mother. Although, I do NOT agree with Francesca when she said that it is better for both of the cubs to be were they are right now than before. Of course that it is better to be in the jungle!! Where they are right now doesn't allow them to be wild animals and act like tigers. If they were to go back to the jungle, they would not know how to behave and feed themselves. Also, their mother was about to come back and then they got captured, but if she had come earlier they would have been safe. Then they would grow up and learn how to live in a jungle. Now, Boots is with Aurelia, which is good and she provides a lot of necessaries for him, that weren't accessible in the forest. But some of them were not necessary and Boots could live without them. For examples, the collar and the leash were not necessary for the cub, but for aurelia. Boots fangs were removed for him to not bite Aurelia, but they would do good for him if he were in the jungle, to catch his prey. Also, they were going to take his claws out to not scratch Aurelia, but they would be a way to protect himself. So, he is being changed for the best of other people." However ferociously they fought, however cruelly the clawed or bit or crushed the death-humans and each other- there was an innocence in it, They were doing what nature meant them to do (pg..49)" So, they act should act like tigers. But, I too have to agree with Francesca that he may be a little bit better off with the Princess than in the jungle. On the other hand, Brute is being treated really badly at the Colosseum. He would be a lot better off in the jungle than in the arena. But, he maintains his "personality" with him, by what he has to do. As I mentioned before, on page 49,it says that animals are doing what nature meant them to do. That was when Julius goes to the arena and sees animals fighting with humans and other animals. He still fights, and hasn't taken out his fangs or claws. Brute has needed to change not for the safety of other but for their entertainment. Although, he has become more violent and would be more calm in the jungle. So, in my opinion both of the cubs would have a better life in the jungle.
I do agree with the statement that different lives creates different characters , but in the beggining of the book we have no evidence they had the same charecter. In the boat , they showed signs of the same INSTINCTS , not charecters. They had the instinct to huddle together for warmth and to try to escape , but they didnt show signs of charecter. They showed some signs of INTELIGENCE , as we see that one of the tiger´s realized first that they wouldn´t be able to destroy the cage they were in with their jaws , while the other didn´t stop attacking it , until being stopped by his brother. ChARECTER is different then INTELIGENCE/INSTINCT.
I disagree with the thought that Brute would be more calm and having a better life in the jungle. He may or may not have a better life in the jungle. Both in the Jungle and in the Colesseum he has to face problems and fights, which require him to be more savage. In the jungle he could also be starving , because of lack of prey. One of the biggest diferences , is that it would be NATURAL for an animal to starve because of lack of prey , but not because he was locked up and dependant on otehrs for food! Another difference we see is taht his nose would probably not be clogged up because of smells , seeing that the wind would spread the odors. Another difference is that in the jungle he would have the chance to search for food , he could find it and become healthier , or not find it and starve , opposed to receiving little , but receiving , food everyday.
I think that , although it´s very brutal , the Colosseum is a genius idea for a way to enlight people. Seeing people fight each other for their lives , having to deal with problems , their adversaries and wounds , with the prize being their lifes ease people of their own suffering. To see others fight and win , not only fills you with lust to fight , it also gives you a feeling that even though it may be hard , if you give all you have , you´ll be able to win through the hardest of challenges. It is not only a form of fun , it´s also a form of mental theraphy. Something that encites the telespectators to be the ones defeating their problems , the ones who are able to win through the hardest of challenges! A form of fun and tratment , that´s how i see the Colosseum.
After reading about all the types of animals that were kept in the Colosseum I´ve come to a conclusion. Keeping so many different types of animals , different species , in one place is just not natural. They were ment to coexist SEPARATLY , each in their own ecosystem , not all in one palce fighting each other. The world is divided into HOT and COLD , PROFUND and SUPERFICIAL , MARINE and TERRESTRIAL for a reason! Some things were never supposed to interact, that´s just how thing´s go. That shows me that all things come with a price , the Colosseum was spectacular , yes, but for that it trespassed some of the basic rules of nature.
I really like the book Tiger, Tiger, by Lynne Reid Banks, because it is related to what we are learning in Social Studies. We are learning about Ancient Rome and Tiger, Tiger happens at that time. For example, we saw that Julius Caesar was the Emperor in the History Alive! book and in Tiger, Tiger he is too. Also, we learned that the Colesseum was buil at that time and on Tiger, Tiger, it talks a lot about the Colesseum, since that's where Brute lives.
Responding to many comments on "Should the tigers live in Rome or in the jungle they came from? Where would it be better for them?" In my opinion, all animals should be kept in their habitats for several reasons. First, because all of their own species is there and their family. Second, it is like taing a human to live in the middle of the jungle! you will not adapt easily! Also, it definitely is traumatic and very confusing. Imagine you get to a place where you don't know, without your mom or your brother! It must be awful!!! You guys may say that life in the jungle must be real hard and full of dangers. So what?! It's there where they belong and they were born to be wild. Although you may say that living with Princess Aurelia is very comfortable and wonderful, it mst be awful for suach a big, wild animal as a tiger be treated as a pet. Imagine that for some reason, Boots attacked Aurelia and hurt her. The Emperor and Empress would immediately make the animal go back to the jungle and would never see him again. As soon as Boots got there, he would die. That's because he would not know how to hunt or how to be a REAL tiger! For these reasons, I think wild animals are meant to be wild and belong in the jungle.
On the topic "Do animals feel just like us, humans?", I say that they do, depending on the types of emotions. For example, I believe that animals feel sad, lonely, and mistreated. That also know how we feel. For example one day when I got home I was really sad and immediately my dog noticed and came lick me! But, for example, the feeling of love is definitely different! I mean, they don't have this thing: "I am your girlfriend and your my boyfriend." They just smell each other's butt and etc. But I think it all depends on the species too! There are some species where the couple stays together for the rest of their lives. In the other hand, some animals just get together to reproduce. So, yes, animals feel as much as we do, jus in different ways.
As one of Francesca's post says, the objective of this book is to show two distinct worlds happening to animals of the same species, most especifically, brothers. It is very sad to see that Boots is being well treated and pampered by Aurelia, while Brute has to kill and eats very little. As many of you may know, in nature it would be the opposite. Probabaly, the stronger cub, Brute, would have succeeded and survived in the wild jungle. While that, the weaker and smaller cub, Boots, would have died or would have fewer chances to suceed.
I agree with Isabella because, as she said, Boots is treated well and Brute is not, wheather in the jungle it would be the opposite. Completing what she said, Brute would succeed because he would be stronger and he would get more food. It always been like that in the jungle. The strongest succeeds, the weak wither and die or choose to get stronger.
I agree with him that all animals should have their own space and privacy to live. But i disagree with one thing. Yes, maybe some of the animals were not ment to coexist together but think this: they need each other to survive. Even in the jungle. Some of them were ment to, well, not coexist, but to interact. For example: a tiger and a deer. They might not interact in a good way, but they still do. And they all depend on each other because without each other they wont be able to eat. You see, they are all part of the food chain. Eating is also a basic rule of nature, and to kill each other too. Yes, maybe the Colloseum shouldnt force them to kill each other, but it is still part of nature to kill each other, and it will happen either way, so live with it.
But I think its sad that such beautiful creatures such as tigers had to be pulled out of their homes and forced to fight just for entertainment. Thats cruel and unfair. Maybe in those times it was awesome, but now-a-days it would surely be banned. I mean, why? Why did they do it for entertainment? Couldnt they find anything else like games or circuses that dont include killing for entertainment? It just horrific watching these animals that, before they were pulled out of their homes, lived much like us, enjoying our lives. But waching them fight for survival and food and then laughing at it? What was with those people? Their brains probably didnt fully develop at that time.
Also, there is the case of the people. The Gladiators were also sent to the Colloseum to fight for survival. Thats just absurd. And plus, most of them were slaves. Again, what was with those people? I mean, isnt being whipped and slashed at in the hot sun while obeying their cruel masters orders enough? Then they are sent to the Colloseum to die? These guys must have been really bored to come up with something like this. I bet there was a guy that said "i dont want to watch this because, well, what if that down there were you being torn to pieces by a tiger?" That guy, if he existed, belived in the golden rule which is "dont to do others what you dont want them to do to you." He was the real wise man.
My favorite part of the book is when Aurelia goes to the Circus for the first time. I really like this part because she was able to convince her father to let Julius go too, in order that she would find it easier to face the horrors of the Colosseum. Also, I really like it because, for a change, the Romans thought that the circus, with Brute killing everyone, was too violent. Women were screaming and even men were finding it hard to stand: "And the noises from the crowd were no longer wholeheartedly enthusiastic. There were more screams, and Julius saw that several women in the crowd nearby were fainting (Banks 91)." Also, I liked that Marcus vomited. He deserved it, after appreciating so much the circus and its killings and trying to appear braver than what he actually was. Because of that, he disgraced himself and his father, and that was well deserved. Finally, I also liked it because Aurelia was able to pretend that the killing didn't distress her. This was really brave of her, and I wouldn't have been able to do so. I'd probably have run away at the first gladiator fight, so I would like to be as corageous as her. These are some of the reasons why I like the part of the Circus the best.
I think that it was well deserved for Marcus to be thrown off by his horse twice and then humiliated by his teacher. Trying to prove that he was a good rider, he treated the horse too harshly, causing it to rear and make him fall on the first time. Then, he remounted and hit the horse to make it run too fast. His teacher arrived and stopped the horse brusquely, causing Marcus to fall again. Finally, the teacher answered the following when the boy asked the reason that he rode a gelding instead of a stallion: "Because your father thinks you'll be safer on a gelding, and so do I. Now remount and let me see a collected canter (Banks 61)." First of all, it wasn't fair that the horse was beaten and treated badly because Marcus wanted to prove his courage, so it had all the rights to rear up and throw Marcus off. When you ride a horse, you can't expect to treat it badly and be treated well by it. Horseback riding is a mutual activity, both the horse and the rider have to understand and trust one another, or it doesn't work. If a rider doesn't trust the horse, he will never feel confident on it and will pass all his time afraid that the horse will go crazy. On the other hand, if a horse doesn't trust the rider, it will not obey commandments that it finds unusual for fear that it might be a trick. Also, the horse will turn violent at any moment if it feels endangered by the rider. Of course that Marcus couldn't ride a stallion if then he treated the horses that way! Also, it was very good that the teached humilited him by saying that he didn't have the potential to ride a stallion. It was the truth, Marcus did not, and he deserved to know that what he was doing was wrong. He would never improve at horseback riding acting the way he did. Also, he finally saw that a horse, even a tame gelding, is in fact more powerful than he is. Any horse can throw any rider off if it really wants to, no matter how tame the horse or how good the rider. A horse is around 500 quilos of weight, and to carry all that weight he must also be strong, more than any humam. So, to control a horse you must convince it to obey you or it won't, no matter how hard you pull the reins or how much you beat him. Marcus really needed to know that he was not all powerful just because he was the Senator's son, and that he was actually pretty insignificant against the forces of nature. Imagine if he had been riding a stallion! I wish that he had been, so that I could laugh even harder at the scene. These are some of the reasons why I think he deserved this treatment from the horse.
Santiago says that it was unequitable that animals were forced to fight and die at the Colosseum for human entertainment, and I agree with him. If it's cruel that humans suffered that, why isn't it with animals too? Also, they have no fault at all, like other people also said, they only kill because that's what nature meant them to do. Some didn't even kill, like the camels: they just ran around helpless while the hyenas killed them. Another reason is: why should the animals be taken away from their environments and their habitats so that we can have fun? They deserve to have a happy and normal life the way they are meant to be, where they are meant to be. It is the same thing with hunters now: what right do we have to kill animals for their skin when we can still survive without it? The animals can't! We kill them for an unreasonable and irrational need, and that shouldn't be done. Finally, who are we to decide whether another living thing should die because of us? Those animals have nothing to do with us, and we still kill them for no reason. This is why the killing of animals in the Colosseum was very unfair.
Gabriel says that the Colosseum was a good thing, because it helped people face their own problems. I partially agree with him. On one hand, it is true that it might make people more confident in solving their problems. Also, seeing that the problems other people face are much worse than their own, they might feel better towards their hardships. This is good, and that's why I agree a little with Gabriel. On the other hand, the people who had to die in the Colosseum probably couldn't care less about the problems of the audience, they just wanted to survive. I think that it is not fair that these people had to die so that the other Romans could feel better. Also, sometimes you just have to face hardships in life, and not only feel conforted by other people, especially if this confort causes harm to these other people, like the Circus did. This is why I partialy agree and partially disagree with Gabriel.
One of the best parts of the book is the Coliseum, especially when Julius "protects" the princess from watching the terrible sights. It's not the rights thing to do according to the law, and he knows that, but it is what his heart tells him to do and he follows it. There is a forbidden love going on, and that makes the book even more exiting. There could be not such passion where a slave could marry a princess, but he instead of trying to fight the laws, he simply does what is better for her and is always there for the owner of his heart. It’s really nice of him to not deny anything the princess might need and to prohibit her from doing anything she might regret later or that is wrong. She also seems to incontinently like him a little, even if it’s just as a good friend or someone to recur to when needing advice. It’s a forbidden love that will probably never happen, but it’s still a very good way the author thought of when catching the readers’ attention. Another very good part of this book would be also a part in the Celiseum, but when Marcus, the one who always bragged about being tough enough to watch it feels sick. That proves that even though many people can love that bloodshed, too much of it can be sickening. It’s not shameful to think that a bloodbath is not a beautiful site; actually, it’s a very good thing. You end up expressing what you feel and that makes of you a reliable person, since you also express your opinions. It’s very nice from Aurelia to ask permission for her father to leave. She could probably stand more of it for her father, especially with Julius by her side, but Marcus couldn’t. She partly did for herself and partly for others. That makes of her a very caring and humanistic person. These were two of the best scenes in the book Tiger, Tiger.
Responding to Francesca and Gabriel: I partially agree with Gabriel as well. The Coliseum helps people face their fears, but it is also a horrible way to do such. Animals and humans are both used and tortured for the entertainment of others. People should all face their fears, but in different ways where there is probably no death and blood involved. If the person is scared of blood, become a doctor and when a persons life is in your hands, you won't be scared anymore. If you are afraid of animals, buy yourself a pet. If your afarid of wild animals, then go work at a zoo. All of theese are just a few ways to confront your fears, and none of them injurry others or animals. This were the reasons why I partially agree with Francesca and Gabriel on the aspect of the function of the Coliseum.
My favorite character is Julius. He is a tough man but stil has feelings. Eventhough he knows a slave can't marry a princess, he still allows his heart to dream. He doesn't have that sickening action of an addicted lover to the owner of his heart. He is aware of the reality and that nothing between them can possibly ever happen, but he still wants the best for her. He only wants Aurelia to have a happy life and a friend to recur to. Julius has a healthy action instead od envying someone who could possibly marry her and doesn't love her like he does. He also is a very humanistic person. He really cares for animals and he treats Boots as a son who he is payed to take care of. He is indeed a very good person with true deep feelings, something many people on this world lack. I sincerly hope he and Aurelia can at least become secret lovers, or at least very good and close friends. This are some reasons why I think Julius is a very good person, among many other things that could be saide about him.
Responding to Mrs.Kuhn: I believe animals do have emotions, but not like us. We are different species with different needs. For example, and animal is not going to envy the inteligence another one has, but humans won't feel the need to hunt for meat either. We both do have feelings, but not like we do. We both have different ways, different appearings and our brains work differently. We are capable of having more space in our memories, but animals have the capability of being faster, stronger and having better sences. In the same way we are both of us can run, but animals run faster. We in the same way can analyze things, but we analyze, for example, math problems while anumals calculate the best chance to attack a prey. I believe that yes, animals can feel things and have emotions, but not the same way or the same type as we do.
Responding to 3 of Francesca’s post: I agree with you that the scene where Aurelia goes to the Coliseum for the first time is exciting. I really enjoy the part where Aurelia doesn’t want to go to the Coliseum and she is forced to. To solve this problem she asks Julius to accompany her, so that he can warn her when to close her eyes for bloody parts of the event. I too think that it was a right choice for Aurelia to leave the Coliseum with Marcus and Julius. She was brave the whole time, even though inside she couldn’t stand it. It would be very hard for many of us to do that, but since her father is the Emperor she can’t make him disappointed. Another scene that I also enjoyed was when the tiger comes out and attacks all the men, after that Marcus vomits. This shows that he also was disgusted and made his dad disappointed in him. Aurelia is nice and takes him home, after seeing that his father would not let him. After some time I noticed that the Emperor was “mean”. Not as in saying bad things and acting badly, but as “not letting anybody get in his way”. For example, nobody can question him, disobey him and disappoint him. He is the greatest, which is true, but he can’t even let his own daughter have some “freedom” around him and treat him like a normal dad. When I think about my dad some words that appear are: warm, nice, helpful, funny, and protective. When I think of Aurelia’s dad: serious, disappointed easily, doesn’t let anybody give him tips, firm, etc… Poor Aurelia! ALTHOUGH, at the beginning of the book he is nice, giving his daughter a tiger and making sure she is protected. He is not the character in the book that changes from good to bad, but we see a different side of him. I wonder what he will do. It is very hard to explain what I mean in written words, but orally it is much easier. As a conclusion, you can say that Aurelia’s dad is unusual, but its because of who they are. He is the Emperor and so he acts like one. He acts the way he should, but if he were a normal dad, it would be strange. From what I have read so far, I can come to conclude that Julius likes the Princess and Aurelia likes Julius. Although, when I say "likes" for Aurelia, I don't mean by "love", but she enjoys him. “Julius’s love for the Princess grew day by day. Since he had held her in his arms he aches to hold her again. The little head he had pressed protectively to his chest had left an invisible imprint there that called insistently to be filled. He knew this love was hopeless and very dangerous, and he tried to fight it, but it took possession of him until all he had strength for was to conceal it from everyone but himself. (Banks, 96)” I think that this quote expresses everything that Julius feels. It is really deep and shows that the princess is really pretty physically and munificent in the inside. I really want Aurelia to notice that (Julius likes her) but, it will interrupt the story. Also, it will mix everything up. A good way to set this off would be to have only SOME part of the story explains what happens between the both of them and what happens in all of the three main characters (Marcus, Aurelia and Julius). I too agree with Isabella that the reader wants to make us interested and curious about what will happen with these two characters.
Responding to Isabella k. post: As you mentioned before, Julius is one of the best characters in the book. He treats the Princess well, protects her and likes her. I too hope that both of these charters have a secret love, but now that Marcus had changed it is hard to predict what will happen. Does Aurelia prefer Julius or Marcus? At the beginning of the book, Aurelia liked Julius, now she is beginning to exclude him from the group. She is starting to hang out more with Marcus, and is leaving Julius to take care of Boots. I think that she likes Marcus more because she feels sad for him, after the day they went to the Coliseum. I feel sad for Julius, after being in love with the Princess and getting more attention from her, now he is left alone. What will happen??
Aurelia going to the Circus for the first time is one of the most polemic and interesting parts of the book, for several reasons. Aurelia never wanted to go because she did not think it was correct for innnocent people and animals to die just because her father wanted them to. Since Marcus talks to and convinces her father to take her there for her birthday, she has to go. Marcus and his father have the privilege to watch the circus from the Imperial Box. Marcus used to say that he absolutely loved going to the Circus, but in the middle of a scene, he vomits. This proves that he isn't a very mature boy and that he just wanted to show off. Aurelia, on the countrary, doesn't vomit or anything, she stays there bravely. Julius would cough every time the princess should close her eyes, and although he forgets to, they stick together, like good friends. brute does very well on his first appearence on the Colesseum. He kills like he's supposed to and the whole city talks about him. Although I don't like this idea of people killing or animals killing, I am glad that a tiger that already suffored so much, makes it worth it during the scene. These are some interesting things that happen on the Circus.
In the book Tiger Tiger, by Lynne Reid Banks, who is the main character? We can easily identify who are the main characters, they are: - Aurelia - Julius - Marcus - Boots - Brute
But, who, of all of them is the main one? Marcus and Julius are not, they are the friend of the protagonist. I think that Aurelia is the Protagonist. But, are Boots and Brute also only friends? The title is Tiger Tiger… Aurelia is participating in all of the scenes but what does she have to do with Brute, she only saw him fight. She doesn’t even now that Brute is Boots brother. What will they have to do, in order to see each other? The author is focusing on Boot more than Brute. Why?
I 100% agree with you two that it is unequitable for animals to be killed in the Colesseum. We, humans, are a species of animals, right? And if you agree with me that we are, than we would be considered the most numerous species on Earth. Although we have a rational brain and they don't, we should coexist in peace and harmony and care for each other. Also, they didn't do anything to be taken to the arena! They only went there, because Caesar needed to entertain the poor. We should let them live a happy life in the jungle. They would never do anything to us, except to protect themselves. Those are their instincts and in Rome, they were seen as beasts. Respect for animals!
I agree with you that Julius is an awesome character! Perhaps I don't think he is the very best, but he definitely is one of the best. Like you said, he has a very healthy type of love for Princess Aurelia, sticking to the reality that he is nothing but a slave. Also, he is very protective of her and very mature, unlike Marcus. He definitely is an admirable person! Like Isabela K. said, Julius cares for Boots as his son and is very kind. These are some of the reasons why I agree with Isa K. that Julius is a very special character.
I think that Marcus is being mean to Julius when he decides that they should play a trick on him. They hide Boots and then they pretend that he has escaped. This is very mean of him, but I also want to know what will happen to him if the emperor finds out. Will he be sent to be killed for not protecting the princess? Also, Aurelia goes with the idea of tricking Julius, does she feel the same way about him as she did before? Was Julius really sleeping? He had just closed his eyes to think of something, but had he really fallen asleep? What was his dream?
In my opinion Marcus is an idiot , ambicious brat. Why does he have to play a prank on Boots? Can´t he just do something that wont hurt other , something that will entertain him AND NOT harm others? Also , he thinks he is so important just because he is the son of a senator.... He once said : ´´ He wasn´t going to stand for that. Not him-what , a senators son swallow such an insult?´´ Who cares if he is a senators son! He is a lot lower than Aurelia , but if he wants to have a revenge , let it be on HER , not on him! And you can see how envous he is to Aurelia... He wanted all that power , he wanted the luxuries she had ! he has a horse , she has a tiger....
An admirable charecter you day? Realizing he is just a slave? I think that is being more submissive than courageous. If he had the strengh , he wouldn´t be ´´fighting´´ his love for her , he would be fighting FOR her love, EVEN THOUGHT he is a slave! Mature... Comparing an adult with an 11 year-old? Sincerly , he HAD to be more mature , you can´t expect an adult to be LESS mature than a kid that dosnt even have half of his age... I can only agree with you one one point , he does care a lot about Boots. Although in my opinion he doesn´t care about him as a son , since he still realizes the tiger inside of boots , he is pretty nice to him.
I think the book shows well the effect of fate on people´s / animal´s life. Look at how Boots and Brute´s lifes started out so alike and progresse so drasticaly different! Starting off as two normal , wild cubs and becoming a savage killer and a giant cat ! Not only does the book portray the effect of destiny well , if shows us extremes of life. Extreme pampering and NO pampering... The only par in here that seems a bit odd , is that since they´re tigers surrounded by humans , they can´t exacly have much of an influece on their life´s... I´ll refrase what i said before , it doesn´t only show the influence of destiny , it shows a life RULED by destiny/fate!
I do agree with the statement that animals shouldn´t be killed in the Colosseum , but i do disagree that they don´t have rational brains. The have rational brains that work diferently , relying more on instinct than in constant changes , such as us humans who change with the mistakes we AND our kind do. Getting back to the animal killing , truly the slaves did do something ´´wrong´´ and in the Roman point of view should be punished , but the animals , those are truly innocent! The only crime they could possibly be acussed of would e self-defense and being so majestic , beutiful and fantastic! Kill the slaves if that is the way of justice , but let the animals live , for that is the way of NATURE!
Interesting topic to discuss about, Javi! I had never really reflected a lot on who could be considered the main character of the book Tiger, Tiger, by Lynne Reid Banks. Well, as you mentioned, the five main characters are:
- Aurelia - Marcus - Julius - Boots - Brute
There is not only one main character in my opinion, there are two: Boots and Brute. One of the reasons, is that the title of the book is TIGER, TIGER. Although Brute is not talked as much about as Boots, the book is still about the life of the two tigers. Aurelia is almost the protagonist, since she is in almost every part of the book. But the protagonists are Brute and his brother Boots.
Okay, I am glad you agree with me on most of the things. Except that, on the topic of rational/irrational brains, it wasn't me that chose on which category they were. Scientists classify humans as rational animals and all others as irrational animals. Just so you know! ;D
I think that the book isn´t very suspensful, though it is in a way. The author, Lynne Reid Banks, doesn´t show much suspense, but still finds a way to keep us interested. I think its the details. The details are vivd, that place me in the book immediatly, making me feel and see what is happeneing. This is what I love about the book. All I have to do is read the words. MY imagination does the rest.
I agree with you that Boots and Brute are the protagonists, but the problem is, who is the antagonist, or, the evil one? I, for one, have no idea, but if a gave my answer, I would spoil the book. I want to hear your answers.
Also, I think at the middle and end of the book it is very exiting in an interesting way. The beggining is kind of boring, but, if you dont read it, you will really not understand the book. SO when you finish reading the beggining, it starts getting better and better until you HAVE to read it, if not your not satisfied. That is one of the best parts of a book, and a characteristic of the very best books in the whole wide world. Without details and suspense, what is a book? Juat a few pages with a story that has no point of being written? I think so. If the author and readers call it a book, I suspect it of having details and suspense.
I agree with you that the animals have rational brains, just that we humans consider most things that have less intelligence or think differently than we do "irrational." But it shouldnt be like that. Suposedlly, the animals consider us "irrational" for not thinking how they think, which is relaying more on instinct thn knowledge.
As i finished the book, I immedeatly knew how the book would end, due to small details I found. I think it a good way to end the book when Julius runs away and never sees Aurelia again, because if they did get together and got married, it would be like a romance story, which I really dont want. The two tiger, Boots and Brute seem to have a life without each other. A doubt I got was: Would they live together after that, or seperate and live among other tigers
I wonder if Caesar, after the big incident, actually got another pet for Aurelia, though i doubt it. Caesar was ashamed and made look a fool by Aurelia, so I dont think he´ll even consider giving another pet to Aurelia anytime soon.
I dont think Marcus was being mean to Julius for pulling that trick, or at least not only Marcus was being mean. Since Aurelia, which is a higher class that Marcus, agreed to it, it is partly her fault. If she would´ve said no, Marcus would´nt ahve been allowed to do it. Also, it is partly Maarcus´s fault for even thinking about that trick. And then, it is partly Julius´s fault for falling asleep.
*Responding to Javiera, Isabela K. and Isabella V.*
I also think that JUlius is a very good character ing the book due to his personality. He is very caring and loving, and shows his love for the princess in a very respectful way, and chooses not to show it, for that would be most unwise, because Caesar might find out. I wonder if they hadnt pulled the trick on Julius, how the book would have gone. Maybe Julius could have never showed his love for her, and Aurelia´s for him. Or maybe he would have been daring enough to announce his love for Aurelia and then either the Emperor would have killed him, or they would have gotten married. Who knows?
I think that Marcus is a really bad, horrible and mean person. I hate him!! The whole book is so exciting and then Marcus comes in and destroys the romance between Julius and Aurelia, and makes Julius and Boots almost die because of his stupid, dumb jokes. Then everything ends, Julius never see Aurelia again and Aurelia marries Marcus. I feel really bad for her. After making everything really bad, and then not even telling his father that it was his idea to do that prank, Marcus marries Aurelia. He doesn't deserve her. I think that the book would be better without Marcus. He could be in the book, but not as much involved in it as he was before.
I loved reading Tiger, Tiger, by Lynne Reid Banks, for several reasons. It is extremely related to our Social Studies class, about Ancient Rome. As it says in the Epilogue, all characters are ficticious, but that the setting was really inspired in Ancient Rome. Also, I like that it is a romance-adventure book. For example, it has the romantic parts of Julius and Aurelia, but also the Colesseum parts. I think it is a very interesting book because it makes you love tigers! Although tigers were my favorite animals before reading this. Those are some of the reasons why I loved reading Tiger, Tiger.
I would recommend Tiger, Tiger, by Lynne Reid Banks to other people, for several reasons. First of all, it is a "good size" book. It has 194 pages of pure adventure and romance! Secondly, most of the story happens around only five main characters: Aurelia, Julius, Marcus, Boots, and Brute. That is very good, because you don't have to memorize so many names. Also, it teaches you a lot about the history of Ancient Rome. For example, I learned a lot about the gladiators in the Colesseum and about the life of people in the higher classes, such as Aurelia. These are some of the reasons why I would recommend this awesome book to others.
The end of Tiger is horrible, bad and it shows reality when the rest of the story is unreal. For example, Julius and Aurelia are really good friends, they like each other and they need each other. When you are reading the book, you think that they will get married or something like that, but in the end, Marcus marries Aurelia and that makes the reader disappointed, depending on the point of view and which character they like the most. I, personally, don't like Marcus and that is why it is disappointing, but others think that he is good and they like the ending. The idea and the statement that Julius can and will not ever see Aurelia again makes me angry and sad. Angry, because it is all Marcus's fault that he was sent to fight at the Coliseum and that they could have a happy life together. Sad, because Julius is al left alone, and all he wanted was Aurelia. There are many parts that show his feelings for her, like jealousy when she was with Marcus and sadness, knowing that he could never have a future with her, because he was a slave. Aurelia never had any big feelings for Julius, but she felt that she needed him. The author makes you have a big hope that these two characters will have a future at the end of the book. But, instead she makes us face reality. The reality is that two people in which you believe will have a future don’t and other people do. In this case, it was all Marcus’s fault that Aurelia and Julius didn’t get married. But, something that I wonder is that, would Aurelia ever marry Julius if he were in a higher social level than he was before?
You said previously that Marcus is a really bad, horrible, mean person, and that you hate him. Well, I partially agree with you. I agree that he is coward by not telling his father that the trick on Julius was his idea. Also, Marcus did ruin the romantic climate between Aurelia and Julius many times. For example, when Julius was looking/flirting with Aurelia in one of Boots' visits to her, Marcus suddenly comes and starts talking to her. On the other hand, Marcus' "bad" side happens partially because he is much younger than Princess Aurelia and Julius. This obviously makes him more immature and "stupid" on Julius' point of view. For these reasons, I partially agree with Javiera about Marcus' personality.
I think that Brute and Boots will live forever together. Brute will teach his brtoher to hunt and fight, while Boots will teach his brother to be "polite". To me, it does not make sense that Brute and Boots get separate in the wild someday. I mean, they have been separate so long... why not enjoy the rest of life as brothers? Perhaps when they find a "wife" they will go separate ways, but until there, I hope they have fun together!
Responding to Isabella Vitta's post: I agree with you that Tiger Tiger, by Lynne Reid Banks is totally a book to recommend to other people. It is exciting, adventurous and makes you never want to stop reading. I also agree that the size of the book is very adequate for what happens. Also, like a lot of other books, there is new vocabulary words that you need to know in order to understand what is happening. If I had read this book before we studied ancient Rome, I probably would have understood most of it, unless I did some research. We went reading at the same measures of the book as we learned about Rome. So, this book not only is good to read, but to teach and learn about ancient times and what people used to do. I really enjoyed this book and I really would read it if I were another person.
I did not like the ending of this book. First of all, Julius and Aurelia should have stayed together for ever instead of never seeing each other again. It would have even been better for Julius to be killed in the arena than just leaving, because at least then the story would be over. Instead, we wonder about what happened to Julius during the rest of his life and if he missed Aurelia or not. Also, I don't like the fact that Aurelia married Marcus. He was a very childish and mean boy, and I don't think Aurelia would have chosen him as husband under normal circumstances. Also, when it says: "The marriage being an arranged match, romantic love was not part of it. Neverthless, it was not unhappy. The two understood each other (...), and remained good companions (Banks 191)", it makes me think that it was not the best thing that could happen to Aurelia. They did have happiness, but to marry you are supposed to love the person you are marring to, not only be a good companion to him or her. So, she should have waited to find another love instead of marring her cousin. Finally, I think that Boots should have stayed as Aurelia's pet, since he liked it that way and it was easier for him to survive. The best thing that happened in the end is that Brute found freedom, the rest could be improved. These are some of the reasons why I didn't like the ending of this book very much.
Responding to Santiago: I agree with you that Caesar wouldn't have bought another pet for Aurelia. He was very ashamed of her and disappointed in Julius. He was very mean to her and didn't pay much attention to her when she tried to tell him that Julius had not done anything to the tiger and that it was her fault. I think that being the emperor is hard, but he should be nice to Aurelia and respect her, and listen to her. I think that if he were nicer, he would listen to her, not sent Julius to the coliseum and they would find Boots.
I would recommend this book to other people. First, it has a very good story, with many good themes, such as "Accept the consequences of your actions". The story itself is original and interesting, since it involves both animals, romance and trouble between social classes. It is not a boring book, and it has the right amount of action and description so that it isn't too much or too little descriptive. Second, the book itself is very well written, with good word choice and expressions that grab and keep the reader. The author talks about delicate subjects in the book with the right balance between exageration and straight-to-the-point language, like when the nurse is telling Aurelia that she has to submit to her father's will: "The only way we women can get through our lives honorably is with courage and resignation, both (Banks 168)." Finally, it is also a good booik for learning about daily life in Ancient Rome, since the basic Roman behavior is accurate and it talks about some factors that caused commotions, such as Christianity and barbarians. It helped me remeber some things that we read in the history textbook too. These are some of the reasons why I would recommend this book to other people.
Javiera says that Caesar sent Julius to the Colosseum because he was mean and didn't pay attention to what his daughter said. I disagree with her. I think he sent Julius to the Colosseum to be killed for two main reasons: first, he was angry that Aurelia could have been hurt by the tiger, and he loves her as any father, so he was mad at Julius for getting her into that risk. Second, he was inclined to let Julius go, but when he saw that Aurelia was in love with the slave he got furious and decided to kill him. This happened because the social status of that time declared that slaves were the lowest human form, and as daughter of the emperor Aurelia couldn't ashame her father that way. To solve this problem, Caesar simply decided to kill the slave and teach his daughter a lesson with it. This is why I disagree with Javiera.
Santiago says that Julius is a very good character. I agree with him, because he was humble, respectful and nice. Also, he was very brave and ignored his feelings for the well-being of the others, like when he decides to hide his love for Aurelia and when he says a prayer for the beast that would kill him at the Colosseum. He also decides not to suicide so that Aurelia wouldn't remember him as a coward. Finally, he acted nicely even if he disliked someone, such as the emperor or Marcus, and I don't think it was only because of their superior ranks. He was a very honest and responsible man, and one of the first things he thought when he knew he would be killed was for his mother to forgive him. This shows that he cared about his mother's well being as much as he cared for his own life. These are only some of the many reasons why I think Julius is the best character in the book and why I, consequently, agree with Santiago.
I truly wonder at what time, exacly, this took place in Caesars reign. Was Caesar mudered shortly after? If so , what happened to princess Aurelia? I know the book is ficticious , but if you look at it like this , you wonder what happened to the charecters. For how long was Julius a storyteller and did he EVER tell the story of being the tiger´s tamer? And Boots and Brute, what happened when one of them died? Did both die at the same time , did one suicide after seing the others death , or did they simply not live together after they ran away? I believe thinking about that makes the end a bit cooler.
It is interesting to see how charecters change throughout the novel. Aurelia starts not liking Julius, but ends the book loving him. Julius starts the book loving her , but ends up deciding it´s best that they dont stay together. Marcus starts as a stupid little kid , and ends the book as the father of an emperor. Brute and Boots start as two wild tigers , become a fierce gladiator and a pampered big cat ( each one respectively), and end as two wild , fullgrown , nature craving tigers. Julius starts as a loving dad , and ends as a cold tyrant. The nurse starts disaproving of Boots and Julius , but ends up helping them survive in the Colosseum. As you can see, changes happen on almost every charecter.
I disagree with Franscesca on many things: Julius and Aurelia should have stayed together? What do you want , a romance/ fairy tale? Wake up , that would never be possible.... Another thing , Marcus was a very childish and mean boy on the BEGGINING of the book , since as the story progresses it shows us hes becoming more of a man , not only physically , mustache , but mentally , cavalerism. Last but not least , i disagree that Boots should have stayed with Aurelia. Yes, it could be an easier life , but staying with her he would never be a tiger , he would be a big cat. Neverless, you forget that life for Brute in the wild would be a lot harder alone than with Boots ´s help.
Responding to Isabella ( who responded to Santiago):
I partially agree with you. Yes, i think they will live together , but i do not think that they would teach each other to be polite and to become a hunter, respectively. Boots is a natural hunter , which would absent him from the need of ´´learning´´ from his brother. Brute is a hunter , and i see no need for a tiger to be ´´polite´´. I think that Boots would be the mastermind of the two , the one who would find shelter , water , detect danger (etc...). Neverless , I do agree that they would be together until they got married , if not after.
At the begging of the book I didn’t like because two poor tigers were taken by their mother. But as the book went on, nothing seems to happen with the tigers – in terms of cruelness. In the end it was very good for the tigers because the best thing to a wild animal is to be released or freed. This happens to the tigers in page 190. Another fact that we can see that is in the epilogue, it said that the tigers were never found. Basically, I dint like the book in the begging, but as time passed I converted my mind.
I would recommend this book to everyone. This is a very good book and in my opinion, it could be read for all ages. Some people say this book is sad. I don’t know why. Maybe because in the end, the tigers run away from the city instead of staying with Relia. I think the tigers preferred much more to do what they want instead of staying in a cage for the rest of their lives. Besides, they were already grown-up, big, and strong, capable of killing Relia.
As soon as I began reading Tiger Tiger, at the prologe,i was already liking the book. It is so descriptive and makes you want to know where the two cubs are going.
ReplyDeleteOne part that i liked, in the wasy described, but no the event,was:
"As the cubs are carried down to where cages wait in the grim bowels of the ship, they cannot know that their last chance of rescue lies at the foot of the gangway with a spear through her heart."
That is extremely sad, they have so many bad things happening to them: 1.They are being captured, 2. Their mother has died, now they have nobody to rescue them!
Since the begining of the book, you can see it's going to be a good book. Right at the prologe, the author already starts being so descriptive it seems that you are actually in the middle of the jungle and hunters are coming after you. You actually can feal the same the two little cubs are fealing while they battle to know if they should run like all the other animals or do whta their mother told them and stay where they because she must come back. I think that what is going to happen next, by reading the back of the book, comparing it to descriptions and infering, the largest cub is going to become one of the animals who fight whith the gladiators while the smallest cub is going to become a pet for the princess Aurelia. That is what I think will happen next, so lets wait and read more to see...
ReplyDeleteResponding to Javiera:
ReplyDeleteYes, I also agree that its a very sad situatiuon the cubs are confronting. First, they are all alone and going to and unkown place. Second, their mother is dead and there is no possible way for them to get her back; their family was devided. Third, from infering, I can say that probably both cubs are going to be seperates as well. What will happen when they don't have each other anymore and they are all left over? They could possibly forget about each other, but wouldn't there be a "hollow spot"of loneliness inside them?
Responding to Javiera and Isabela:
ReplyDeleteThe author seems to be trying to make the reader imagine what it would be like to be an animal. Do you think animals really "feel" like humans? Do they feel emotions like sadness and loneliness too?
I think that the objective of this book is to show how different lives lead to different forms of character. One reason I believe this is true is because he gets two brother tigers, that lived exactly the same, and not two random tigers. Also, the treatments they receive are at both extremes: Boots has the best life possible, living with the princess, and Brute has the worst life possible, being trained to kill. Finally, both tigers have similar personalities at the beginning, when they were free, and at the end Brute is a sanguinary beast and Boots acts like a big cat. This is why I think that the main theme in the book is how harsh treatment can affect the way a living thing feels and acts.
ReplyDeleteResponding to Mrs.Kuhn:
ReplyDeleteI believe that yes, animals do have feelings, but not like humans. They might have some similar type of emotions, but they won't love like we do, feal pain like we do, feel lonely... They can have some tyope of fealing, but the impact of pain on us could have a different impact on them. The can feal lonely, but there are propably other things they cen worry about. They have different worries then we do, which means they actually have a different way of thinking that we humans do. I think they can actually feal sadness, but the impession we get is that they "forget"for some periods of time. They have a much healthier action then humans for sadness; many humans would get depressed while tigers wouldn't let it interfer in their lifes. I believe that yes, animals do have emotions, but not like humans.
i really like the begining of the book. It is really descriptive. when I read it I can picture the scene of the book. I like the way it describes the jungle turning alive when the hunters come. The author really does a good job on describing the tigers emotoins. I really wonder where ther tigers came from though?
ReplyDeleteI have mixed feelings about Aurelia's character. In first place, I think that she is a little spoiled. For example, she decides to ignore what Julius says and orders him not to pull Boots' claws out, even if Julius knew more than her on how to keep her safe. Also, on page 18, it says that Aurelia killed a fish just because she had the power to. This is not a good action. I also think she is a bit childish, playing such a mean prank on Julius just because he fell asleep, and simply desperating when her father decided how to punish him. She could have rebelled in a more effective way than how she did. For example, she could have helped Julius escape herself, and then run away from Rome. That is what I think I would have done if I were in her place. Finally, I think that she is too arrogant, even for a princess. She gives absolute orders to Marcus, Julius and everyone around her, even though she sometimes is way younger and knows way less than the people she forces to do her will, like her nurse. On the other hand, she did want to confess to her father that she was to blame and not Julius, and she did face the emperor of Rome in her own manner. She was also really brave going to the Circus, something that I would have not been able to do. You can see that I really don't know if I should admire or dislike Aurelia.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIsabela Karam says that animals feel in a different way than humans. I disagree with her because you only need to live with one animal, any animal, to realize that they actually do feel emotions like us. For example, once I put on a black wig and black makeup on for Halloween, and my cat looked at me really strangely. It was very easy to see, even more after living with her for eight years, that she was confused and scared. When I tried to pet her, she ran away as if I was shooting her. I cornered her and took my wig off. As soon as she saw that, a look of annoyance crossed her face and she meowed really loudly and angrily because I had scared her. Also, I know that she missed me when we went to Guartelá for four days, because as soon as I came back she was much less a rebel than she normally is, and let me handle her so much that normally she would have bit me. A third example is: when my Myth Project group came to my house to film, we cornered her and i grabbed her because they wanted to pet her. She tried to escape, and started meowing sadly, and it was obvious that she was begging me to let her get away from those strangers. We locked her in my room, and John and Lennart started petting her. She didn't bite them, but her ears were twisted backwards and her eyes were opened wide, in annoyance and fear. As soon as we let her go, she ran away, frightened, and she evited me for the rest of the day, as if angry at me for making her go through all of that. These are very few of the many examples that animals give of their feelings to anyone who wants to interpret them, and normally their emotions are so clear and simple that we disconsider them. When cats half-close their eyes slowly they are saying something very close to "I love you", and my cat does that to me daily. Once I did it to her, and she did it back again. I wanted to see her reaction, so I did it again, and she completely closed her eyes and started purring very loud, and I wasn't even touching her. You can see that animals give many hints of their feelings, and you only need to know what to look for or follow your own emotions.
ReplyDeleteIsabela Karam says that she thinks that the situation the cubs are facing is very sad. I agree with her to a certain extent. I agree with her because they did feel something missing when they were separated, like it says on page 33: "He hadn't forgotten his brother, either. And his brother hadn't forgotten him." They probably missed each other and felt lonely and confused, and that is why I feel sad for them. On the other hand, I disagree with Isabela because they would end forgetting one another, since they were really young when they were separated, and to a certain point of view they were safer in their new destiny than in the jungle. For example, Boots lived with all his need taken care of, in a safe place. Brute, however, lived a more difficult life. He was trained to kill and to fight, and the food was scarce. Even though his life was hard, he did have food, and he was reasonably safe as long as he was not in the arena. Being a tiger, for instance, helped him survive when he was in the arena, so he was never in too much danger. In the forest, both tigers would be in danger daily, threatened by nature or by skin hunters. It would be hard to find food, too. As you can see, I both agree and disagree with Isabela.
ReplyDeleteResponding to Mrs. Kuhn:
ReplyDeleteNo I do not think that they feel the same as humans, but they must have some feelings, not emotions. When they cry its a way of telling somebody they are hungry and sad, when they growl they are angry.. So, they adapt to the environment by actions.
Although later in the book, Boots misses his brother at night and thinks:
"Where was his brother?
That was the most important thing.
They had been a pair, and now that had ended and he was alone. In the darkness there was no warm, friendly other to curl up against. No familiar smell and no one to communicate with.
He slept at last, miserable, aching and lonely (pg.30)."
This expains many things:
1. He does remember his brother and all the good things about being with him. So, they have a good memory.
2. He does have some feelings, he was miserable, lonely and aching. Poor tiger!!
So, they do have some feelings, but not as many as humans.
Like said before:
ReplyDeleteThe author wants to make us think about how animals are treated and the life that they live in. Many animals are captured by hunters and taken to other places, where they are sold, killed or trained. They have to adapt to complete different places.
As a twin, I have spent all of my life with somebody in the same place, grade,house, bedroom.. ever since I was born. We have always been there for each other, and it would be extremely sad to be separated.
Now the two cubs are separated and they may never see each other again. By reading the opening of the book, you can know that Marcus is going to get the cub and hide it. Then they, Marcus and Boots, will be sent to the arena to be killed. Then Boots and Brute will find each other. But what will they do??
Let continue reading....
Responding to Francesca's Post:
ReplyDeleteI do agree with you and Isabela K. that it is very sad to be separated and away from your brother and mother.
Although, I do NOT agree with Francesca when she said that it is better for both of the cubs to be were they are right now than before. Of course that it is better to be in the jungle!! Where they are right now doesn't allow them to be wild animals and act like tigers. If they were to go back to the jungle, they would not know how to behave and feed themselves. Also, their mother was about to come back and then they got captured, but if she had come earlier they would have been safe. Then they would grow up and learn how to live in a jungle. Now, Boots is with Aurelia, which is good and she provides a lot of necessaries for him, that weren't accessible in the forest. But some of them were not necessary and Boots could live without them. For examples, the collar and the leash were not necessary for the cub, but for aurelia. Boots fangs were removed for him to not bite Aurelia, but they would do good for him if he were in the jungle, to catch his prey. Also, they were going to take his claws out to not scratch Aurelia, but they would be a way to protect himself. So, he is being changed for the best of other people." However ferociously they fought, however cruelly the clawed or bit or crushed the death-humans and each other- there was an innocence in it, They were doing what nature meant them to do (pg..49)" So, they act should act like tigers. But, I too have to agree with Francesca that he may be a little bit better off with the Princess than in the jungle. On the other hand, Brute is being treated really badly at the Colosseum. He would be a lot better off in the jungle than in the arena. But, he maintains his "personality" with him, by what he has to do. As I mentioned before, on page 49,it says that animals are doing what nature meant them to do. That was when Julius goes to the arena and sees animals fighting with humans and other animals. He still fights, and hasn't taken out his fangs or claws. Brute has needed to change not for the safety of other but for their entertainment. Although, he has become more violent and would be more calm in the jungle. So, in my opinion both of the cubs would have a better life in the jungle.
Please respond!!
I partially disagree with Franscesca:
ReplyDeleteI do agree with the statement that different lives creates different characters , but in the beggining of the book we have no evidence they had the same charecter. In the boat , they showed signs of the same INSTINCTS , not charecters. They had the instinct to huddle together for warmth and to try to escape , but they didnt show signs of charecter. They showed some signs of INTELIGENCE , as we see that one of the tiger´s realized first that they wouldn´t be able to destroy the cage they were in with their jaws , while the other didn´t stop attacking it , until being stopped by his brother. ChARECTER is different then INTELIGENCE/INSTINCT.
Responding to Javieras post:
ReplyDeleteI disagree with the thought that Brute would be more calm and having a better life in the jungle. He may or may not have a better life in the jungle. Both in the Jungle and in the Colesseum he has to face problems and fights, which require him to be more savage. In the jungle he could also be starving , because of lack of prey. One of the biggest diferences , is that it would be NATURAL for an animal to starve because of lack of prey , but not because he was locked up and dependant on otehrs for food! Another difference we see is taht his nose would probably not be clogged up because of smells , seeing that the wind would spread the odors. Another difference is that in the jungle he would have the chance to search for food , he could find it and become healthier , or not find it and starve , opposed to receiving little , but receiving , food everyday.
I think that , although it´s very brutal , the Colosseum is a genius idea for a way to enlight people. Seeing people fight each other for their lives , having to deal with problems , their adversaries and wounds , with the prize being their lifes ease people of their own suffering. To see others fight and win , not only fills you with lust to fight , it also gives you a feeling that even though it may be hard , if you give all you have , you´ll be able to win through the hardest of challenges. It is not only a form of fun , it´s also a form of mental theraphy. Something that encites the telespectators to be the ones defeating their problems , the ones who are able to win through the hardest of challenges! A form of fun and tratment , that´s how i see the Colosseum.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading about all the types of animals that were kept in the Colosseum I´ve come to a conclusion. Keeping so many different types of animals , different species , in one place is just not natural. They were ment to coexist SEPARATLY , each in their own ecosystem , not all in one palce fighting each other. The world is divided into HOT and COLD , PROFUND and SUPERFICIAL , MARINE and TERRESTRIAL for a reason! Some things were never supposed to interact, that´s just how thing´s go. That shows me that all things come with a price , the Colosseum was spectacular , yes, but for that it trespassed some of the basic rules of nature.
ReplyDeleteI really like the book Tiger, Tiger, by Lynne Reid Banks, because it is related to what we are learning in Social Studies. We are learning about Ancient Rome and Tiger, Tiger happens at that time. For example, we saw that Julius Caesar was the Emperor in the History Alive! book and in Tiger, Tiger he is too. Also, we learned that the Colesseum was buil at that time and on Tiger, Tiger, it talks a lot about the Colesseum, since that's where Brute lives.
ReplyDeleteResponding to many comments on "Should the tigers live in Rome or in the jungle they came from? Where would it be better for them?" In my opinion, all animals should be kept in their habitats for several reasons. First, because all of their own species is there and their family. Second, it is like taing a human to live in the middle of the jungle! you will not adapt easily! Also, it definitely is traumatic and very confusing. Imagine you get to a place where you don't know, without your mom or your brother! It must be awful!!! You guys may say that life in the jungle must be real hard and full of dangers. So what?! It's there where they belong and they were born to be wild. Although you may say that living with Princess Aurelia is very comfortable and wonderful, it mst be awful for suach a big, wild animal as a tiger be treated as a pet. Imagine that for some reason, Boots attacked Aurelia and hurt her. The Emperor and Empress would immediately make the animal go back to the jungle and would never see him again. As soon as Boots got there, he would die. That's because he would not know how to hunt or how to be a REAL tiger! For these reasons, I think wild animals are meant to be wild and belong in the jungle.
ReplyDeleteOn the topic "Do animals feel just like us, humans?", I say that they do, depending on the types of emotions. For example, I believe that animals feel sad, lonely, and mistreated. That also know how we feel. For example one day when I got home I was really sad and immediately my dog noticed and came lick me! But, for example, the feeling of love is definitely different! I mean, they don't have this thing: "I am your girlfriend and your my boyfriend." They just smell each other's butt and etc. But I think it all depends on the species too! There are some species where the couple stays together for the rest of their lives. In the other hand, some animals just get together to reproduce. So, yes, animals feel as much as we do, jus in different ways.
ReplyDeleteAs one of Francesca's post says, the objective of this book is to show two distinct worlds happening to animals of the same species, most especifically, brothers. It is very sad to see that Boots is being well treated and pampered by Aurelia, while Brute has to kill and eats very little. As many of you may know, in nature it would be the opposite. Probabaly, the stronger cub, Brute, would have succeeded and survived in the wild jungle. While that, the weaker and smaller cub, Boots, would have died or would have fewer chances to suceed.
ReplyDeleteResponding to Isabella V.:
ReplyDeleteI agree with Isabella because, as she said, Boots is treated well and Brute is not, wheather in the jungle it would be the opposite. Completing what she said, Brute would succeed because he would be stronger and he would get more food. It always been like that in the jungle. The strongest succeeds, the weak wither and die or choose to get stronger.
Responding to Gabriel:
ReplyDeleteI agree with him that all animals should have their own space and privacy to live. But i disagree with one thing. Yes, maybe some of the animals were not ment to coexist together but think this: they need each other to survive. Even in the jungle. Some of them were ment to, well, not coexist, but to interact. For example: a tiger and a deer. They might not interact in a good way, but they still do. And they all depend on each other because without each other they wont be able to eat. You see, they are all part of the food chain. Eating is also a basic rule of nature, and to kill each other too. Yes, maybe the Colloseum shouldnt force them to kill each other, but it is still part of nature to kill each other, and it will happen either way, so live with it.
But I think its sad that such beautiful creatures such as tigers had to be pulled out of their homes and forced to fight just for entertainment. Thats cruel and unfair. Maybe in those times it was awesome, but now-a-days it would surely be banned. I mean, why? Why did they do it for entertainment? Couldnt they find anything else like games or circuses that dont include killing for entertainment? It just horrific watching these animals that, before they were pulled out of their homes, lived much like us, enjoying our lives. But waching them fight for survival and food and then laughing at it? What was with those people? Their brains probably didnt fully develop at that time.
ReplyDeleteAlso, there is the case of the people. The Gladiators were also sent to the Colloseum to fight for survival. Thats just absurd. And plus, most of them were slaves. Again, what was with those people? I mean, isnt being whipped and slashed at in the hot sun while obeying their cruel masters orders enough? Then they are sent to the Colloseum to die? These guys must have been really bored to come up with something like this. I bet there was a guy that said "i dont want to watch this because, well, what if that down there were you being torn to pieces by a tiger?" That guy, if he existed, belived in the golden rule which is "dont to do others what you dont want them to do to you." He was the real wise man.
ReplyDeleteMy favorite part of the book is when Aurelia goes to the Circus for the first time. I really like this part because she was able to convince her father to let Julius go too, in order that she would find it easier to face the horrors of the Colosseum. Also, I really like it because, for a change, the Romans thought that the circus, with Brute killing everyone, was too violent. Women were screaming and even men were finding it hard to stand: "And the noises from the crowd were no longer wholeheartedly enthusiastic. There were more screams, and Julius saw that several women in the crowd nearby were fainting (Banks 91)." Also, I liked that Marcus vomited. He deserved it, after appreciating so much the circus and its killings and trying to appear braver than what he actually was. Because of that, he disgraced himself and his father, and that was well deserved. Finally, I also liked it because Aurelia was able to pretend that the killing didn't distress her. This was really brave of her, and I wouldn't have been able to do so. I'd probably have run away at the first gladiator fight, so I would like to be as corageous as her. These are some of the reasons why I like the part of the Circus the best.
ReplyDeleteI think that it was well deserved for Marcus to be thrown off by his horse twice and then humiliated by his teacher. Trying to prove that he was a good rider, he treated the horse too harshly, causing it to rear and make him fall on the first time. Then, he remounted and hit the horse to make it run too fast. His teacher arrived and stopped the horse brusquely, causing Marcus to fall again. Finally, the teacher answered the following when the boy asked the reason that he rode a gelding instead of a stallion: "Because your father thinks you'll be safer on a gelding, and so do I. Now remount and let me see a collected canter (Banks 61)." First of all, it wasn't fair that the horse was beaten and treated badly because Marcus wanted to prove his courage, so it had all the rights to rear up and throw Marcus off. When you ride a horse, you can't expect to treat it badly and be treated well by it. Horseback riding is a mutual activity, both the horse and the rider have to understand and trust one another, or it doesn't work. If a rider doesn't trust the horse, he will never feel confident on it and will pass all his time afraid that the horse will go crazy. On the other hand, if a horse doesn't trust the rider, it will not obey commandments that it finds unusual for fear that it might be a trick. Also, the horse will turn violent at any moment if it feels endangered by the rider. Of course that Marcus couldn't ride a stallion if then he treated the horses that way! Also, it was very good that the teached humilited him by saying that he didn't have the potential to ride a stallion. It was the truth, Marcus did not, and he deserved to know that what he was doing was wrong. He would never improve at horseback riding acting the way he did. Also, he finally saw that a horse, even a tame gelding, is in fact more powerful than he is. Any horse can throw any rider off if it really wants to, no matter how tame the horse or how good the rider. A horse is around 500 quilos of weight, and to carry all that weight he must also be strong, more than any humam. So, to control a horse you must convince it to obey you or it won't, no matter how hard you pull the reins or how much you beat him. Marcus really needed to know that he was not all powerful just because he was the Senator's son, and that he was actually pretty insignificant against the forces of nature. Imagine if he had been riding a stallion! I wish that he had been, so that I could laugh even harder at the scene. These are some of the reasons why I think he deserved this treatment from the horse.
ReplyDeleteSantiago says that it was unequitable that animals were forced to fight and die at the Colosseum for human entertainment, and I agree with him. If it's cruel that humans suffered that, why isn't it with animals too? Also, they have no fault at all, like other people also said, they only kill because that's what nature meant them to do. Some didn't even kill, like the camels: they just ran around helpless while the hyenas killed them. Another reason is: why should the animals be taken away from their environments and their habitats so that we can have fun? They deserve to have a happy and normal life the way they are meant to be, where they are meant to be. It is the same thing with hunters now: what right do we have to kill animals for their skin when we can still survive without it? The animals can't! We kill them for an unreasonable and irrational need, and that shouldn't be done. Finally, who are we to decide whether another living thing should die because of us? Those animals have nothing to do with us, and we still kill them for no reason. This is why the killing of animals in the Colosseum was very unfair.
ReplyDeleteGabriel says that the Colosseum was a good thing, because it helped people face their own problems. I partially agree with him. On one hand, it is true that it might make people more confident in solving their problems. Also, seeing that the problems other people face are much worse than their own, they might feel better towards their hardships. This is good, and that's why I agree a little with Gabriel. On the other hand, the people who had to die in the Colosseum probably couldn't care less about the problems of the audience, they just wanted to survive. I think that it is not fair that these people had to die so that the other Romans could feel better. Also, sometimes you just have to face hardships in life, and not only feel conforted by other people, especially if this confort causes harm to these other people, like the Circus did. This is why I partialy agree and partially disagree with Gabriel.
ReplyDeleteOne of the best parts of the book is the Coliseum, especially when Julius "protects" the princess from watching the terrible sights. It's not the rights thing to do according to the law, and he knows that, but it is what his heart tells him to do and he follows it. There is a forbidden love going on, and that makes the book even more exiting. There could be not such passion where a slave could marry a princess, but he instead of trying to fight the laws, he simply does what is better for her and is always there for the owner of his heart. It’s really nice of him to not deny anything the princess might need and to prohibit her from doing anything she might regret later or that is wrong. She also seems to incontinently like him a little, even if it’s just as a good friend or someone to recur to when needing advice. It’s a forbidden love that will probably never happen, but it’s still a very good way the author thought of when catching the readers’ attention. Another very good part of this book would be also a part in the Celiseum, but when Marcus, the one who always bragged about being tough enough to watch it feels sick. That proves that even though many people can love that bloodshed, too much of it can be sickening. It’s not shameful to think that a bloodbath is not a beautiful site; actually, it’s a very good thing. You end up expressing what you feel and that makes of you a reliable person, since you also express your opinions. It’s very nice from Aurelia to ask permission for her father to leave. She could probably stand more of it for her father, especially with Julius by her side, but Marcus couldn’t. She partly did for herself and partly for others. That makes of her a very caring and humanistic person. These were two of the best scenes in the book Tiger, Tiger.
ReplyDeleteResponding to Francesca and Gabriel:
ReplyDeleteI partially agree with Gabriel as well. The Coliseum helps people face their fears, but it is also a horrible way to do such. Animals and humans are both used and tortured for the entertainment of others. People should all face their fears, but in different ways where there is probably no death and blood involved. If the person is scared of blood, become a doctor and when a persons life is in your hands, you won't be scared anymore. If you are afraid of animals, buy yourself a pet. If your afarid of wild animals, then go work at a zoo. All of theese are just a few ways to confront your fears, and none of them injurry others or animals. This were the reasons why I partially agree with Francesca and Gabriel on the aspect of the function of the Coliseum.
My favorite character is Julius. He is a tough man but stil has feelings. Eventhough he knows a slave can't marry a princess, he still allows his heart to dream. He doesn't have that sickening action of an addicted lover to the owner of his heart. He is aware of the reality and that nothing between them can possibly ever happen, but he still wants the best for her. He only wants Aurelia to have a happy life and a friend to recur to. Julius has a healthy action instead od envying someone who could possibly marry her and doesn't love her like he does. He also is a very humanistic person. He really cares for animals and he treats Boots as a son who he is payed to take care of. He is indeed a very good person with true deep feelings, something many people on this world lack. I sincerly hope he and Aurelia can at least become secret lovers, or at least very good and close friends. This are some reasons why I think Julius is a very good person, among many other things that could be saide about him.
ReplyDeleteResponding to Mrs.Kuhn:
ReplyDeleteI believe animals do have emotions, but not like us. We are different species with different needs. For example, and animal is not going to envy the inteligence another one has, but humans won't feel the need to hunt for meat either. We both do have feelings, but not like we do. We both have different ways, different appearings and our brains work differently. We are capable of having more space in our memories, but animals have the capability of being faster, stronger and having better sences. In the same way we are both of us can run, but animals run faster. We in the same way can analyze things, but we analyze, for example, math problems while anumals calculate the best chance to attack a prey. I believe that yes, animals can feel things and have emotions, but not the same way or the same type as we do.
Responding to 3 of Francesca’s post:
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that the scene where Aurelia goes to the Coliseum for the first time is exciting. I really enjoy the part where Aurelia doesn’t want to go to the Coliseum and she is forced to. To solve this problem she asks Julius to accompany her, so that he can warn her when to close her eyes for bloody parts of the event. I too think that it was a right choice for Aurelia to leave the Coliseum with Marcus and Julius. She was brave the whole time, even though inside she couldn’t stand it. It would be very hard for many of us to do that, but since her father is the Emperor she can’t make him disappointed. Another scene that I also enjoyed was when the tiger comes out and attacks all the men, after that Marcus vomits. This shows that he also was disgusted and made his dad disappointed in him. Aurelia is nice and takes him home, after seeing that his father would not let him.
After some time I noticed that the Emperor was “mean”. Not as in saying bad things and acting badly, but as “not letting anybody get in his way”. For example, nobody can question him, disobey him and disappoint him. He is the greatest, which is true, but he can’t even let his own daughter have some “freedom” around him and treat him like a normal dad. When I think about my dad some words that appear are: warm, nice, helpful, funny, and protective. When I think of Aurelia’s dad: serious, disappointed easily, doesn’t let anybody give him tips, firm, etc… Poor Aurelia! ALTHOUGH, at the beginning of the book he is nice, giving his daughter a tiger and making sure she is protected. He is not the character in the book that changes from good to bad, but we see a different side of him. I wonder what he will do. It is very hard to explain what I mean in written words, but orally it is much easier. As a conclusion, you can say that Aurelia’s dad is unusual, but its because of who they are. He is the Emperor and so he acts like one. He acts the way he should, but if he were a normal dad, it would be strange.
From what I have read so far, I can come to conclude that Julius likes the Princess and Aurelia likes Julius. Although, when I say "likes" for Aurelia, I don't mean by "love", but she enjoys him. “Julius’s love for the Princess grew day by day. Since he had held her in his arms he aches to hold her again. The little head he had pressed protectively to his chest had left an invisible imprint there that called insistently to be filled. He knew this love was hopeless and very dangerous, and he tried to fight it, but it took possession of him until all he had strength for was to conceal it from everyone but himself. (Banks, 96)” I think that this quote expresses everything that Julius feels. It is really deep and shows that the princess is really pretty physically and munificent in the inside. I really want Aurelia to notice that (Julius likes her) but, it will interrupt the story. Also, it will mix everything up. A good way to set this off would be to have only SOME part of the story explains what happens between the both of them and what happens in all of the three main characters (Marcus, Aurelia and Julius). I too agree with Isabella that the reader wants to make us interested and curious about what will happen with these two characters.
Responding to Isabella k. post:
ReplyDeleteAs you mentioned before, Julius is one of the best characters in the book. He treats the Princess well, protects her and likes her. I too hope that both of these charters have a secret love, but now that Marcus had changed it is hard to predict what will happen. Does Aurelia prefer Julius or Marcus? At the beginning of the book, Aurelia liked Julius, now she is beginning to exclude him from the group. She is starting to hang out more with Marcus, and is leaving Julius to take care of Boots. I think that she likes Marcus more because she feels sad for him, after the day they went to the Coliseum. I feel sad for Julius, after being in love with the Princess and getting more attention from her, now he is left alone. What will happen??
Aurelia going to the Circus for the first time is one of the most polemic and interesting parts of the book, for several reasons. Aurelia never wanted to go because she did not think it was correct for innnocent people and animals to die just because her father wanted them to. Since Marcus talks to and convinces her father to take her there for her birthday, she has to go. Marcus and his father have the privilege to watch the circus from the Imperial Box. Marcus used to say that he absolutely loved going to the Circus, but in the middle of a scene, he vomits. This proves that he isn't a very mature boy and that he just wanted to show off. Aurelia, on the countrary, doesn't vomit or anything, she stays there bravely. Julius would cough every time the princess should close her eyes, and although he forgets to, they stick together, like good friends. brute does very well on his first appearence on the Colesseum. He kills like he's supposed to and the whole city talks about him. Although I don't like this idea of people killing or animals killing, I am glad that a tiger that already suffored so much, makes it worth it during the scene. These are some interesting things that happen on the Circus.
ReplyDeleteIn the book Tiger Tiger, by Lynne Reid Banks, who is the main character? We can easily identify who are the main characters, they are:
ReplyDelete- Aurelia
- Julius
- Marcus
- Boots
- Brute
But, who, of all of them is the main one? Marcus and Julius are not, they are the friend of the protagonist. I think that Aurelia is the Protagonist. But, are Boots and Brute also only friends? The title is Tiger Tiger… Aurelia is participating in all of the scenes but what does she have to do with Brute, she only saw him fight. She doesn’t even now that Brute is Boots brother. What will they have to do, in order to see each other? The author is focusing on Boot more than Brute. Why?
Responding to Francesca and Santiago:
ReplyDeleteI 100% agree with you two that it is unequitable for animals to be killed in the Colesseum. We, humans, are a species of animals, right? And if you agree with me that we are, than we would be considered the most numerous species on Earth. Although we have a rational brain and they don't, we should coexist in peace and harmony and care for each other. Also, they didn't do anything to be taken to the arena! They only went there, because Caesar needed to entertain the poor. We should let them live a happy life in the jungle. They would never do anything to us, except to protect themselves. Those are their instincts and in Rome, they were seen as beasts. Respect for animals!
Responding to Isabela K.:
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that Julius is an awesome character! Perhaps I don't think he is the very best, but he definitely is one of the best. Like you said, he has a very healthy type of love for Princess Aurelia, sticking to the reality that he is nothing but a slave. Also, he is very protective of her and very mature, unlike Marcus. He definitely is an admirable person! Like Isabela K. said, Julius cares for Boots as his son and is very kind. These are some of the reasons why I agree with Isa K. that Julius is a very special character.
I think that Marcus is being mean to Julius when he decides that they should play a trick on him. They hide Boots and then they pretend that he has escaped. This is very mean of him, but I also want to know what will happen to him if the emperor finds out. Will he be sent to be killed for not protecting the princess? Also, Aurelia goes with the idea of tricking Julius, does she feel the same way about him as she did before? Was Julius really sleeping? He had just closed his eyes to think of something, but had he really fallen asleep? What was his dream?
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion Marcus is an idiot , ambicious brat. Why does he have to play a prank on Boots? Can´t he just do something that wont hurt other , something that will entertain him AND NOT harm others? Also , he thinks he is so important just because he is the son of a senator.... He once said : ´´ He wasn´t going to stand for that. Not him-what , a senators son swallow such an insult?´´ Who cares if he is a senators son! He is a lot lower than Aurelia , but if he wants to have a revenge , let it be on HER , not on him! And you can see how envous he is to Aurelia... He wanted all that power , he wanted the luxuries she had ! he has a horse , she has a tiger....
ReplyDeleteResponding to Isa´s (V and K):
ReplyDeleteAn admirable charecter you day? Realizing he is just a slave? I think that is being more submissive than courageous. If he had the strengh , he wouldn´t be ´´fighting´´ his love for her , he would be fighting FOR her love, EVEN THOUGHT he is a slave! Mature... Comparing an adult with an 11 year-old? Sincerly , he HAD to be more mature , you can´t expect an adult to be LESS mature than a kid that dosnt even have half of his age... I can only agree with you one one point , he does care a lot about Boots. Although in my opinion he doesn´t care about him as a son , since he still realizes the tiger inside of boots , he is pretty nice to him.
I think the book shows well the effect of fate on people´s / animal´s life. Look at how Boots and Brute´s lifes started out so alike and progresse so drasticaly different! Starting off as two normal , wild cubs and becoming a savage killer and a giant cat ! Not only does the book portray the effect of destiny well , if shows us extremes of life. Extreme pampering and NO pampering... The only par in here that seems a bit odd , is that since they´re tigers surrounded by humans , they can´t exacly have much of an influece on their life´s... I´ll refrase what i said before , it doesn´t only show the influence of destiny , it shows a life RULED by destiny/fate!
ReplyDeleteResponding to IsabellaVitas post:
ReplyDeleteI do agree with the statement that animals shouldn´t be killed in the Colosseum , but i do disagree that they don´t have rational brains. The have rational brains that work diferently , relying more on instinct than in constant changes , such as us humans who change with the mistakes we AND our kind do. Getting back to the animal killing , truly the slaves did do something ´´wrong´´ and in the Roman point of view should be punished , but the animals , those are truly innocent! The only crime they could possibly be acussed of would e self-defense and being so majestic , beutiful and fantastic! Kill the slaves if that is the way of justice , but let the animals live , for that is the way of NATURE!
Responding to Javiera:
ReplyDeleteInteresting topic to discuss about, Javi! I had never really reflected a lot on who could be considered the main character of the book Tiger, Tiger, by Lynne Reid Banks. Well, as you mentioned, the five main characters are:
- Aurelia
- Marcus
- Julius
- Boots
- Brute
There is not only one main character in my opinion, there are two: Boots and Brute. One of the reasons, is that the title of the book is TIGER, TIGER. Although Brute is not talked as much about as Boots, the book is still about the life of the two tigers. Aurelia is almost the protagonist, since she is in almost every part of the book. But the protagonists are Brute and his brother Boots.
Responding to Gabriel:
ReplyDeleteOkay, I am glad you agree with me on most of the things. Except that, on the topic of rational/irrational brains, it wasn't me that chose on which category they were. Scientists classify humans as rational animals and all others as irrational animals. Just so you know! ;D
I think that the book isn´t very suspensful, though it is in a way. The author, Lynne Reid Banks, doesn´t show much suspense, but still finds a way to keep us interested. I think its the details. The details are vivd, that place me in the book immediatly, making me feel and see what is happeneing. This is what I love about the book. All I have to do is read the words. MY imagination does the rest.
ReplyDelete*Responding to Isabella V.*
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that Boots and Brute are the protagonists, but the problem is, who is the antagonist, or, the evil one? I, for one, have no idea, but if a gave my answer, I would spoil the book. I want to hear your answers.
Also, I think at the middle and end of the book it is very exiting in an interesting way. The beggining is kind of boring, but, if you dont read it, you will really not understand the book. SO when you finish reading the beggining, it starts getting better and better until you HAVE to read it, if not your not satisfied. That is one of the best parts of a book, and a characteristic of the very best books in the whole wide world. Without details and suspense, what is a book? Juat a few pages with a story that has no point of being written? I think so. If the author and readers call it a book, I suspect it of having details and suspense.
ReplyDelete*Responding to Gabriel #22*
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that the animals have rational brains, just that we humans consider most things that have less intelligence or think differently than we do "irrational." But it shouldnt be like that. Suposedlly, the animals consider us "irrational" for not thinking how they think, which is relaying more on instinct thn knowledge.
As i finished the book, I immedeatly knew how the book would end, due to small details I found. I think it a good way to end the book when Julius runs away and never sees Aurelia again, because if they did get together and got married, it would be like a romance story, which I really dont want. The two tiger, Boots and Brute seem to have a life without each other. A doubt I got was: Would they live together after that, or seperate and live among other tigers
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Caesar, after the big incident, actually got another pet for Aurelia, though i doubt it. Caesar was ashamed and made look a fool by Aurelia, so I dont think he´ll even consider giving another pet to Aurelia anytime soon.
ReplyDeleteResponding to Javiera:
ReplyDeleteI dont think Marcus was being mean to Julius for pulling that trick, or at least not only Marcus was being mean. Since Aurelia, which is a higher class that Marcus, agreed to it, it is partly her fault. If she would´ve said no, Marcus would´nt ahve been allowed to do it. Also, it is partly Maarcus´s fault for even thinking about that trick. And then, it is partly Julius´s fault for falling asleep.
*Responding to Javiera, Isabela K. and Isabella V.*
ReplyDeleteI also think that JUlius is a very good character ing the book due to his personality. He is very caring and loving, and shows his love for the princess in a very respectful way, and chooses not to show it, for that would be most unwise, because Caesar might find out. I wonder if they hadnt pulled the trick on Julius, how the book would have gone. Maybe Julius could have never showed his love for her, and Aurelia´s for him. Or maybe he would have been daring enough to announce his love for Aurelia and then either the Emperor would have killed him, or they would have gotten married. Who knows?
I think that Marcus is a really bad, horrible and mean person. I hate him!! The whole book is so exciting and then Marcus comes in and destroys the romance between Julius and Aurelia, and makes Julius and Boots almost die because of his stupid, dumb jokes. Then everything ends, Julius never see Aurelia again and Aurelia marries Marcus. I feel really bad for her. After making everything really bad, and then not even telling his father that it was his idea to do that prank, Marcus marries Aurelia. He doesn't deserve her. I think that the book would be better without Marcus. He could be in the book, but not as much involved in it as he was before.
ReplyDeleteI loved reading Tiger, Tiger, by Lynne Reid Banks, for several reasons. It is extremely related to our Social Studies class, about Ancient Rome. As it says in the Epilogue, all characters are ficticious, but that the setting was really inspired in Ancient Rome. Also, I like that it is a romance-adventure book. For example, it has the romantic parts of Julius and Aurelia, but also the Colesseum parts. I think it is a very interesting book because it makes you love tigers! Although tigers were my favorite animals before reading this. Those are some of the reasons why I loved reading Tiger, Tiger.
ReplyDeleteI would recommend Tiger, Tiger, by Lynne Reid Banks to other people, for several reasons. First of all, it is a "good size" book. It has 194 pages of pure adventure and romance! Secondly, most of the story happens around only five main characters: Aurelia, Julius, Marcus, Boots, and Brute. That is very good, because you don't have to memorize so many names. Also, it teaches you a lot about the history of Ancient Rome. For example, I learned a lot about the gladiators in the Colesseum and about the life of people in the higher classes, such as Aurelia. These are some of the reasons why I would recommend this awesome book to others.
ReplyDeleteThe end of Tiger is horrible, bad and it shows reality when the rest of the story is unreal. For example, Julius and Aurelia are really good friends, they like each other and they need each other. When you are reading the book, you think that they will get married or something like that, but in the end, Marcus marries Aurelia and that makes the reader disappointed, depending on the point of view and which character they like the most. I, personally, don't like Marcus and that is why it is disappointing, but others think that he is good and they like the ending.
ReplyDeleteThe idea and the statement that Julius can and will not ever see Aurelia again makes me angry and sad. Angry, because it is all Marcus's fault that he was sent to fight at the Coliseum and that they could have a happy life together. Sad, because Julius is al left alone, and all he wanted was Aurelia. There are many parts that show his feelings for her, like jealousy when she was with Marcus and sadness, knowing that he could never have a future with her, because he was a slave. Aurelia never had any big feelings for Julius, but she felt that she needed him.
The author makes you have a big hope that these two characters will have a future at the end of the book. But, instead she makes us face reality. The reality is that two people in which you believe will have a future don’t and other people do. In this case, it was all Marcus’s fault that Aurelia and Julius didn’t get married. But, something that I wonder is that, would Aurelia ever marry Julius if he were in a higher social level than he was before?
* Responding to Javiera *
ReplyDeleteYou said previously that Marcus is a really bad, horrible, mean person, and that you hate him. Well, I partially agree with you. I agree that he is coward by not telling his father that the trick on Julius was his idea. Also, Marcus did ruin the romantic climate between Aurelia and Julius many times. For example, when Julius was looking/flirting with Aurelia in one of Boots' visits to her, Marcus suddenly comes and starts talking to her. On the other hand, Marcus' "bad" side happens partially because he is much younger than Princess Aurelia and Julius. This obviously makes him more immature and "stupid" on Julius' point of view. For these reasons, I partially agree with Javiera about Marcus' personality.
* Responding to Santiago *
ReplyDeleteI think that Brute and Boots will live forever together. Brute will teach his brtoher to hunt and fight, while Boots will teach his brother to be "polite". To me, it does not make sense that Brute and Boots get separate in the wild someday.
I mean, they have been separate so long... why not enjoy the rest of life as brothers? Perhaps when they find a "wife" they will go separate ways, but until there, I hope they have fun together!
Responding to Isabella Vitta's post:
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that Tiger Tiger, by Lynne Reid Banks is totally a book to recommend to other people. It is exciting, adventurous and makes you never want to stop reading. I also agree that the size of the book is very adequate for what happens. Also, like a lot of other books, there is new vocabulary words that you need to know in order to understand what is happening. If I had read this book before we studied ancient Rome, I probably would have understood most of it, unless I did some research. We went reading at the same measures of the book as we learned about Rome. So, this book not only is good to read, but to teach and learn about ancient times and what people used to do.
I really enjoyed this book and I really would read it if I were another person.
December 6th, 2009. 6:56 p.m.:
ReplyDeleteI did not like the ending of this book. First of all, Julius and Aurelia should have stayed together for ever instead of never seeing each other again. It would have even been better for Julius to be killed in the arena than just leaving, because at least then the story would be over. Instead, we wonder about what happened to Julius during the rest of his life and if he missed Aurelia or not. Also, I don't like the fact that Aurelia married Marcus. He was a very childish and mean boy, and I don't think Aurelia would have chosen him as husband under normal circumstances. Also, when it says: "The marriage being an arranged match, romantic love was not part of it. Neverthless, it was not unhappy. The two understood each other (...), and remained good companions (Banks 191)", it makes me think that it was not the best thing that could happen to Aurelia. They did have happiness, but to marry you are supposed to love the person you are marring to, not only be a good companion to him or her. So, she should have waited to find another love instead of marring her cousin. Finally, I think that Boots should have stayed as Aurelia's pet, since he liked it that way and it was easier for him to survive. The best thing that happened in the end is that Brute found freedom, the rest could be improved. These are some of the reasons why I didn't like the ending of this book very much.
Responding to Santiago:
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that Caesar wouldn't have bought another pet for Aurelia. He was very ashamed of her and disappointed in Julius. He was very mean to her and didn't pay much attention to her when she tried to tell him that Julius had not done anything to the tiger and that it was her fault. I think that being the emperor is hard, but he should be nice to Aurelia and respect her, and listen to her. I think that if he were nicer, he would listen to her, not sent Julius to the coliseum and they would find Boots.
I would recommend this book to other people. First, it has a very good story, with many good themes, such as "Accept the consequences of your actions". The story itself is original and interesting, since it involves both animals, romance and trouble between social classes. It is not a boring book, and it has the right amount of action and description so that it isn't too much or too little descriptive. Second, the book itself is very well written, with good word choice and expressions that grab and keep the reader. The author talks about delicate subjects in the book with the right balance between exageration and straight-to-the-point language, like when the nurse is telling Aurelia that she has to submit to her father's will: "The only way we women can get through our lives honorably is with courage and resignation, both (Banks 168)." Finally, it is also a good booik for learning about daily life in Ancient Rome, since the basic Roman behavior is accurate and it talks about some factors that caused commotions, such as Christianity and barbarians. It helped me remeber some things that we read in the history textbook too. These are some of the reasons why I would recommend this book to other people.
ReplyDeleteJaviera says that Caesar sent Julius to the Colosseum because he was mean and didn't pay attention to what his daughter said. I disagree with her. I think he sent Julius to the Colosseum to be killed for two main reasons: first, he was angry that Aurelia could have been hurt by the tiger, and he loves her as any father, so he was mad at Julius for getting her into that risk. Second, he was inclined to let Julius go, but when he saw that Aurelia was in love with the slave he got furious and decided to kill him. This happened because the social status of that time declared that slaves were the lowest human form, and as daughter of the emperor Aurelia couldn't ashame her father that way. To solve this problem, Caesar simply decided to kill the slave and teach his daughter a lesson with it. This is why I disagree with Javiera.
ReplyDeleteSantiago says that Julius is a very good character. I agree with him, because he was humble, respectful and nice. Also, he was very brave and ignored his feelings for the well-being of the others, like when he decides to hide his love for Aurelia and when he says a prayer for the beast that would kill him at the Colosseum. He also decides not to suicide so that Aurelia wouldn't remember him as a coward. Finally, he acted nicely even if he disliked someone, such as the emperor or Marcus, and I don't think it was only because of their superior ranks. He was a very honest and responsible man, and one of the first things he thought when he knew he would be killed was for his mother to forgive him. This shows that he cared about his mother's well being as much as he cared for his own life. These are only some of the many reasons why I think Julius is the best character in the book and why I, consequently, agree with Santiago.
ReplyDeleteI truly wonder at what time, exacly, this took place in Caesars reign. Was Caesar mudered shortly after? If so , what happened to princess Aurelia? I know the book is ficticious , but if you look at it like this , you wonder what happened to the charecters. For how long was Julius a storyteller and did he EVER tell the story of being the tiger´s tamer? And Boots and Brute, what happened when one of them died? Did both die at the same time , did one suicide after seing the others death , or did they simply not live together after they ran away? I believe thinking about that makes the end a bit cooler.
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting to see how charecters change throughout the novel. Aurelia starts not liking Julius, but ends the book loving him. Julius starts the book loving her , but ends up deciding it´s best that they dont stay together. Marcus starts as a stupid little kid , and ends the book as the father of an emperor. Brute and Boots start as two wild tigers , become a fierce gladiator and a pampered big cat ( each one respectively), and end as two wild , fullgrown , nature craving tigers. Julius starts as a loving dad , and ends as a cold tyrant. The nurse starts disaproving of Boots and Julius , but ends up helping them survive in the Colosseum. As you can see, changes happen on almost every charecter.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Franscesca on many things:
ReplyDeleteJulius and Aurelia should have stayed together? What do you want , a romance/ fairy tale? Wake up , that would never be possible.... Another thing , Marcus was a very childish and mean boy on the BEGGINING of the book , since as the story progresses it shows us hes becoming more of a man , not only physically , mustache , but mentally , cavalerism. Last but not least , i disagree that Boots should have stayed with Aurelia. Yes, it could be an easier life , but staying with her he would never be a tiger , he would be a big cat. Neverless, you forget that life for Brute in the wild would be a lot harder alone than with Boots ´s help.
Responding to Isabella ( who responded to Santiago):
ReplyDeleteI partially agree with you. Yes, i think they will live together , but i do not think that they would teach each other to be polite and to become a hunter, respectively. Boots is a natural hunter , which would absent him from the need of ´´learning´´ from his brother. Brute is a hunter , and i see no need for a tiger to be ´´polite´´. I think that Boots would be the mastermind of the two , the one who would find shelter , water , detect danger (etc...). Neverless , I do agree that they would be together until they got married , if not after.
At the begging of the book I didn’t like because two poor tigers were taken by their mother. But as the book went on, nothing seems to happen with the tigers – in terms of cruelness. In the end it was very good for the tigers because the best thing to a wild animal is to be released or freed. This happens to the tigers in page 190. Another fact that we can see that is in the epilogue, it said that the tigers were never found. Basically, I dint like the book in the begging, but as time passed I converted my mind.
ReplyDeleteI would recommend this book to everyone. This is a very good book and in my opinion, it could be read for all ages. Some people say this book is sad. I don’t know why. Maybe because in the end, the tigers run away from the city instead of staying with Relia. I think the tigers preferred much more to do what they want instead of staying in a cage for the rest of their lives. Besides, they were already grown-up, big, and strong, capable of killing Relia.
ReplyDelete